Discussion:
[ale] Do One Thing Well
Leam Hall
2017-09-10 09:58:11 UTC
Permalink
There's a difference between an OS tool and an application. Things like
awk and init are tools. The theory is that "do one thing well" applies.
For applications like e-mail or webservers it seems reasonable to do
related things.

There is a line in there somewhere. Not sure where it is or how fixed it
is. But it is there.
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Joey Kelly
2017-09-11 11:47:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Leam Hall
There's a difference between an OS tool and an application. Things like
awk and init are tools.
The inverse of that is "do all things poorly", and systemd does that quite
well.
--
Joey Kelly
Minister of the Gospel and Linux Consultant
http://joeykelly.net
504-239-6550
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Jim Kinney
2017-09-11 12:37:12 UTC
Permalink
All of my systemd gear startup and shutdown quite well. All of the tools, applications, and daemons that do work I want work quite well with systemd. Apache, bind, nfs, ovirt, kerberos, sssd, and even gnome on the workstations all function exactly as required. Systemd does it's multifunction job very well.
Post by Joey Kelly
Post by Leam Hall
There's a difference between an OS tool and an application. Things
like
Post by Leam Hall
awk and init are tools.
The inverse of that is "do all things poorly", and systemd does that quite
well.
--
Joey Kelly
Minister of the Gospel and Linux Consultant
http://joeykelly.net
504-239-6550
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--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. All tyopes are thumb related and reflect authenticity.
Phil Turmel
2017-09-11 13:01:21 UTC
Permalink
Concur. My systemd+UEFI media server at home has been flawless for the
past year. Dipping my toes into a systemd server at work now. The
claims that systemd works poorly are exaggerations at best.

For the one key feature systemd preached at the beginning, fast
parallelized boot, systemd is smashing success. The other key feature,
service isolation using kernel control groups, simply works.

I'm still annoyed by the syntax reversal of systemctl, but it's not the
end of the world.
Post by Jim Kinney
All of my systemd gear startup and shutdown quite well. All of the tools, applications, and daemons that do work I want work quite well with systemd. Apache, bind, nfs, ovirt, kerberos, sssd, and even gnome on the workstations all function exactly as required. Systemd does it's multifunction job very well.
Post by Joey Kelly
Post by Leam Hall
There's a difference between an OS tool and an application. Things
like
Post by Leam Hall
awk and init are tools.
The inverse of that is "do all things poorly", and systemd does that quite
well.
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Jim Kinney
2017-09-11 13:36:28 UTC
Permalink
The syntax reversal is/was annoying. The stop, status, start, status process requires too much back cursor movement and is only a few key strokes away from a one line script to automate the process watching depending on length of process name.
Post by Phil Turmel
Concur. My systemd+UEFI media server at home has been flawless for the
past year. Dipping my toes into a systemd server at work now. The
claims that systemd works poorly are exaggerations at best.
For the one key feature systemd preached at the beginning, fast
parallelized boot, systemd is smashing success. The other key feature,
service isolation using kernel control groups, simply works.
I'm still annoyed by the syntax reversal of systemctl, but it's not the
end of the world.
Post by Jim Kinney
All of my systemd gear startup and shutdown quite well. All of the
tools, applications, and daemons that do work I want work quite well
with systemd. Apache, bind, nfs, ovirt, kerberos, sssd, and even gnome
on the workstations all function exactly as required. Systemd does it's
multifunction job very well.
Post by Jim Kinney
Post by Joey Kelly
Post by Leam Hall
There's a difference between an OS tool and an application. Things
like
Post by Leam Hall
awk and init are tools.
The inverse of that is "do all things poorly", and systemd does that quite
well.
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Ale mailing list
http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
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http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. All tyopes are thumb related and reflect authenticity.
DJ-Pfulio
2017-09-11 17:53:23 UTC
Permalink
But systemd is "flawless for the past year" and a "smashing success" for
Phil.

It is good to know that it works for someone out there.

I'm still waiting for it to handle bridge up/down networking correctly.

And for pulse audio not to crash 5 times a day.
Post by Jim Kinney
The syntax reversal is/was annoying. The stop, status, start, status
process requires too much back cursor movement and is only a few key
strokes away from a one line script to automate the process watching
depending on length of process name.
Concur. My systemd+UEFI media server at home has been flawless for the
past year. Dipping my toes into a systemd server at work now. The
claims that systemd works poorly are exaggerations at best.
For the one key feature systemd preached at the beginning, fast
parallelized boot, systemd is smashing success. The other key feature,
service isolation using kernel control groups, simply works.
I'm still annoyed by the syntax reversal of systemctl, but it's not the
end of the world.
All of my systemd gear startup and shutdown quite well. All of
the tools, applications, and daemons that do work I want work
quite well with systemd. Apache, bind, nfs, ovirt, kerberos,
sssd, and even gnome on the workstations all function exactly as
required. Systemd does it's multifunction job very well.
On September 11, 2017 7:47:00 AM EDT, Joey Kelly
There's a difference between an OS tool and an
application. Things
like
awk and init are tools.
The inverse of that is "do all things poorly", and systemd
does that
quite
well.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. All tyopes are thumb related
and reflect authenticity.
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Solomon Peachy
2017-09-12 01:02:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by DJ-Pfulio
But systemd is "flawless for the past year" and a "smashing success"
for Phil. It is good to know that it works for someone out there.
There are many more folks out there than within your echo chamber.
Post by DJ-Pfulio
I'm still waiting for it to handle bridge up/down networking correctly.
Now that _could_ have something do do with systemd, assuming you're
using systemd-networkd. Which appears to handle bridging just fine,
given how extensively it's used by systemd's container features..?
Post by DJ-Pfulio
And for pulse audio not to crash 5 times a day.
What does that have to do with systemd?

- Solomon
--
Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org
Delray Beach, FL ^^ (email/xmpp) ^^
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Joey Kelly
2017-09-11 22:33:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Kinney
The syntax reversal is/was annoying. The stop, status, start, status process requires too much back cursor movement and is only a few key strokes away from a one line script to automate the process watching depending on length of process name.
I was just thinking about that last week. Surely a wrapper could be
written to give back the traditional "service postfix restart" syntax.
If I had to use systemfail more than once every few months I'd write it
myself.

--Joey
Post by Jim Kinney
Post by Phil Turmel
Concur. My systemd+UEFI media server at home has been flawless for the
past year. Dipping my toes into a systemd server at work now. The
claims that systemd works poorly are exaggerations at best.
For the one key feature systemd preached at the beginning, fast
parallelized boot, systemd is smashing success. The other key feature,
service isolation using kernel control groups, simply works.
I'm still annoyed by the syntax reversal of systemctl, but it's not the
end of the world.
Post by Jim Kinney
All of my systemd gear startup and shutdown quite well. All of the
tools, applications, and daemons that do work I want work quite well
with systemd. Apache, bind, nfs, ovirt, kerberos, sssd, and even gnome
on the workstations all function exactly as required. Systemd does it's
multifunction job very well.
Post by Jim Kinney
Post by Joey Kelly
Post by Leam Hall
There's a difference between an OS tool and an application. Things
like
Post by Leam Hall
awk and init are tools.
The inverse of that is "do all things poorly", and systemd does that quite
well.
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Ale mailing list
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_______________________________________________
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Solomon Peachy
2017-09-12 01:05:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joey Kelly
I was just thinking about that last week. Surely a wrapper could be
written to give back the traditional "service postfix restart" syntax.
If I had to use systemfail more than once every few months I'd write it
myself.
Fedora has maintained such a script from the outset of their systemd
migration. I use it daily.

If your distro doesn't provide something similar, I suggest you ask them
politely to do so.

- Solomon
--
Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org
Delray Beach, FL ^^ (email/xmpp) ^^
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Jerald Sheets
2017-09-12 13:24:23 UTC
Permalink
I’m on CentOS7 and it reports the following as the source of the “system” command:

initscripts-9.49.37-1.el7_3.1.x86_64 : The inittab file and the /etc/init.d
: scripts
Repo : @updates
Matched from:
Filename : /usr/sbin/service


—jms


So, it’s there from “initscripts”, but works with SystemD. I don’t know why, but I find that mildly humorous.
Post by Solomon Peachy
Post by Joey Kelly
I was just thinking about that last week. Surely a wrapper could be
written to give back the traditional "service postfix restart" syntax.
If I had to use systemfail more than once every few months I'd write it
myself.
Fedora has maintained such a script from the outset of their systemd
migration. I use it daily.
James Sumners
2017-09-12 14:06:23 UTC
Permalink
Ask and ye shall receive -- https://github.com/xyproto/sys
Post by Jim Kinney
Post by Jim Kinney
The syntax reversal is/was annoying. The stop, status, start, status
process requires too much back cursor movement and is only a few key
strokes away from a one line script to automate the process watching
depending on length of process name.
I was just thinking about that last week. Surely a wrapper could be
written to give back the traditional "service postfix restart" syntax.
If I had to use systemfail more than once every few months I'd write it
myself.
--Joey
Post by Jim Kinney
Post by Phil Turmel
Concur. My systemd+UEFI media server at home has been flawless for the
past year. Dipping my toes into a systemd server at work now. The
claims that systemd works poorly are exaggerations at best.
For the one key feature systemd preached at the beginning, fast
parallelized boot, systemd is smashing success. The other key feature,
service isolation using kernel control groups, simply works.
I'm still annoyed by the syntax reversal of systemctl, but it's not the
end of the world.
Post by Jim Kinney
All of my systemd gear startup and shutdown quite well. All of the
tools, applications, and daemons that do work I want work quite well
with systemd. Apache, bind, nfs, ovirt, kerberos, sssd, and even gnome
on the workstations all function exactly as required. Systemd does it's
multifunction job very well.
Post by Jim Kinney
Post by Joey Kelly
Post by Leam Hall
There's a difference between an OS tool and an application. Things
like
Post by Leam Hall
awk and init are tools.
The inverse of that is "do all things poorly", and systemd does that quite
well.
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
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See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
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--
James Sumners
http://james.sumners.info/ (technical profile)
http://jrfom.com/ (personal site)
http://haplo.bandcamp.com/ (music)
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