[ale] [OT] Looking for someone to do SMD rework.

[Byron Jeff via Ale]

Hi,

I have succeeded in breaking my car key fob, which really sucks.
Specifically the attenna for the transponder has fallen off and the pad for
that attenna has lifted off the board. Of course replacements cost a
fortune. I was able to secure a batch of used key fobs, so I have clean
boards with properly attached attenna. But the car is keyed to the specific
transponder on the bad board, which is a 14 pin DIP SOIC.

Can anyone, or knows someone, who can do some SMD rework to transfer the
working transponder to a clean board? My attempts after viewing YouTube
University to remove and replace the SOIC makes me wary of attempting to do
this myself with the absolutely only chip that can start the car.

Any assistance in this matter would be greatly welcome.

Thanks,

BAJ
--
Byron A. Jeff
Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information Technology
College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Clayton State University
http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff
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[Horkan Smith via Ale]

Are you sure it wouldn't be easier to retrain your car to the new key fob? I've done that for Fords & Chevys w/ instructions from 3rd party key fob sellers. The instructions varied, but usually involved shorting two wires on the OBDII port or using a strange pattern of key-on/key-off/lock-doors/etc.

later!
horkan

Post by Byron Jeff via Ale
Hi,
I have succeeded in breaking my car key fob, which really sucks.
Specifically the attenna for the transponder has fallen off and the pad for
that attenna has lifted off the board. Of course replacements cost a
fortune. I was able to secure a batch of used key fobs, so I have clean
boards with properly attached attenna. But the car is keyed to the specific
transponder on the bad board, which is a 14 pin DIP SOIC.
Can anyone, or knows someone, who can do some SMD rework to transfer the
working transponder to a clean board? My attempts after viewing YouTube
University to remove and replace the SOIC makes me wary of attempting to do
this myself with the absolutely only chip that can start the car.
Any assistance in this matter would be greatly welcome.
Thanks,
BAJ
--
Byron A. Jeff
Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information Technology
College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Clayton State University
http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff
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Ale mailing list
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[Solomon Peachy via Ale]

Post by Horkan Smith via Ale
Are you sure it wouldn't be easier to retrain your car to the new key fob? I've done that for Fords & Chevys w/ instructions from 3rd party key fob sellers. The instructions varied, but usually involved shorting two wires on the OBDII port or using a strange pattern of key-on/key-off/lock-doors/etc.

I second this suggestion. I bought my daily driver with no fobs and
a disabled security system. Now everything works; the instructions
were actually in the owner's manual.

That said, many vehicles require a working fob in order to train a new
one. It all depends on the manufacturer and model.

- Solomon

[Byron Jeff via Ale]

Solomon,

I replied to Horkan offline. I realize now that his reply went to the list
even though it didn't show in the header of the reply that I got. So here's
my commentary.

------------------------------------------------------------

I wish it were so simple. But alas I have a Fiat 500e, and so it's not.

Fiat uses Philips crypto transponders that have a challenge response with
the BCM. Essentially the secret key is embedded into the BCM of the car and
is written on the crypto block of the transponder and then locked. Once
locked, the crypto page cannot be read or changed on the transponder.

So there are only three ways to 'pre-code' new keys that can be programmed
into the vehicle:

1. Pay the dealer. $175 a fob. Supposedly shipped from Italy.

2. Pull the BCM and read the secret key out of the memory. This involves
unsoldering parts, dumping memory into software, then precoding
and locking new blank transponders.

3. Pay a ton of money for a tool that reads the BCM memory via the OBD/CAN
connector. Then precode and locking new blank transponders.

Then and only after a blank transponder has been precoded, can the new keys
be introduced to the BCM. Dealers charge upwards of $100, in addition to
the keys for the priviledge. In addition all authorized keys have to be
programmed in at the same time.

It's a battle I've been fighting for 6 months. It's a damn shame that 10
bytes of key information and the protocol to read/write the BCM are hidden
so that dealers can charge a ton of money just to authorize keys.

------------------------------------------------------------

BAJ
--
Byron A. Jeff
Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information Technology
College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Clayton State University
http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff

Post by Solomon Peachy via Ale

Post by Horkan Smith via Ale
Are you sure it wouldn't be easier to retrain your car to the new key fob? I've done that for Fords & Chevys w/ instructions from 3rd party key fob sellers. The instructions varied, but usually involved shorting two wires on the OBDII port or using a strange pattern of key-on/key-off/lock-doors/etc.

I second this suggestion. I bought my daily driver with no fobs and
a disabled security system. Now everything works; the instructions
were actually in the owner's manual.
That said, many vehicles require a working fob in order to train a new
one. It all depends on the manufacturer and model.
- Solomon
--
Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org
Coconut Creek, FL ^^ (email/xmpp) ^^
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

--
Byron A. Jeff
Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information Technology
College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Clayton State University
http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff
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[Jim Kinney via Ale]

Pay the dealer. That's their method of keeping keyless access secure as
the dealer will request ID and check (supposedly) ownership records
before doing the transfer. The ID stuff is signed in the chip at the
factory which is why even the dealer can't do it.
That's cheap compared to the new ignition switch for a '02 VW golf -
$1k. That included the towing charge. <sigh>

Post by Byron Jeff via Ale
Solomon,
I replied to Horkan offline. I realize now that his reply went to the list
even though it didn't show in the header of the reply that I got. So here's
my commentary.
------------------------------------------------------------
I wish it were so simple. But alas I have a Fiat 500e, and so it's not.
Fiat uses Philips crypto transponders that have a challenge response with
the BCM. Essentially the secret key is embedded into the BCM of the car and
is written on the crypto block of the transponder and then locked. Once
locked, the crypto page cannot be read or changed on the transponder.
So there are only three ways to 'pre-code' new keys that can be programmed
1. Pay the dealer. $175 a fob. Supposedly shipped from Italy.
2. Pull the BCM and read the secret key out of the memory. This involves
unsoldering parts, dumping memory into software, then precoding
and locking new blank transponders.
3. Pay a ton of money for a tool that reads the BCM memory via the OBD/CAN
connector. Then precode and locking new blank transponders.
Then and only after a blank transponder has been precoded, can the new keys
be introduced to the BCM. Dealers charge upwards of $100, in addition to
the keys for the priviledge. In addition all authorized keys have to be
programmed in at the same time.
It's a battle I've been fighting for 6 months. It's a damn shame that 10
bytes of key information and the protocol to read/write the BCM are hidden
so that dealers can charge a ton of money just to authorize keys.
------------------------------------------------------------
BAJ
--
Byron A. Jeff
Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information Technology
College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Clayton State University
http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff

Post by Solomon Peachy via Ale

Post by Horkan Smith via Ale
Are you sure it wouldn't be easier to retrain your car to the new
key fob? I've done that for Fords & Chevys w/ instructions from
3rd party key fob sellers. The instructions varied, but usually
involved shorting two wires on the OBDII port or using a strange
pattern of key-on/key-off/lock-doors/etc.

I second this suggestion. I bought my daily driver with no fobs and
a disabled security system. Now everything works; the
instructions
were actually in the owner's manual.
That said, many vehicles require a working fob in order to train a new
one. It all depends on the manufacturer and model.
- Solomon
--
Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot
org
Coconut Creek, FL ^^ (email/xmpp) ^^
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

[Neal Rhodes via Ale]

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