[ale] vi vs emacs?

[Lightner, Jeffrey via Ale]

I figure if folks are going to go on ad nauseum about init vs systemd again we should probably resurrect this other irresolvable question as well.

Can't we just leave it at:

Some people hate SystemD.

Some people love SystemD.

Most people don't give a damn one way or another and just use and learn the one that comes with their preferred distro.




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[Jim Kinney via Ale]

SPOILER ALERT!!!!

Post by Lightner, Jeffrey via Ale
I figure if folks are going to go on ad nauseum about init vs systemd
again we should probably resurrect this other irresolvable question
as well.
Some people hate SystemD.
Some people love SystemD.
Most people don’t give a damn one way or another and just use and
learn the one that comes with their preferred distro.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!! Who knew?!?!?

Damn! You totally blew the surprise ending!

Post by Lightner, Jeffrey via Ale
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electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the
sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it.
Thank you
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[DJ-Pfulio via Ale]

Post by Lightner, Jeffrey via Ale
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I wasn't certain this message was for anyone on the list.
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[Phil Turmel via Ale]

Neither. I like nano.

Post by Lightner, Jeffrey via Ale
I figure if folks are going to go on ad nauseum about init vs systemd
again we should probably resurrect this other irresolvable question as well.

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[DJ-Pfulio via Ale]

Shave off your beard!

Post by Phil Turmel via Ale
Neither. I like nano.

Post by Lightner, Jeffrey via Ale
I figure if folks are going to go on ad nauseum about init vs systemd
again we should probably resurrect this other irresolvable question as well.

_______________________________________________

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[Phil Turmel via Ale]

I knew that'd get a rise of you. I'm a heretic.

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
Shave off your beard!

Post by Phil Turmel via Ale
Neither. I like nano.

Post by Lightner, Jeffrey via Ale
I figure if folks are going to go on ad nauseum about init vs systemd
again we should probably resurrect this other irresolvable question as well.

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[Héctor Abreu via Ale]

Post by Phil Turmel via Ale
Neither. I like nano.

I use Vi, Vim and Emacs Evil-mode and Org-mode. I am interested in some
Emacs modes (Clojure-mode, Artist-mode) but when it comes to editor
keybindings and menu keybindings I only do Vi/Vim.

Short story: I like and use Vi/Vim; Org-mode brought me to Emacs but I
refuse to give up Vi/Vim.

[Jim Kinney via Ale]

You should give a demo talk at ale sometime! Being able show different modes and usage is a great demo.

Post by Héctor Abreu via Ale

Post by Phil Turmel via Ale
Neither. I like nano.

I use Vi, Vim and Emacs Evil-mode and Org-mode. I am interested in some
Emacs modes (Clojure-mode, Artist-mode) but when it comes to editor
keybindings and menu keybindings I only do Vi/Vim.
Short story: I like and use Vi/Vim; Org-mode brought me to Emacs but I
refuse to give up Vi/Vim.
--
Héctor A. Abreu
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[Steve Litt via Ale]

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 14:41:43 +0000

Post by Lightner, Jeffrey via Ale
I figure if folks are going to go on ad nauseum about init vs systemd
again

False dilemma alert and misleading terminology alert:

"Init" is a generic term for, generally speaking but open to
modification, the first process run by the kernel plus the system to
configure and run all the daemons. Systemd is an init (plus some other
stuff), so this might as well say "systemd vs systemd".

Before the invention of Upstart, >90% of all Linux machines used
sysvinit for their init system, so some people just referred to it as
"init". Some still do, but today such reference is misleading.

Assuming by "init" you meant "sysvinit", the system with /etc/inittab
and tweaked-comment shellscripts in /etc/rc.d/init.d that can be
symlinked in runlevels such as /etc/rc.d/rc5.d, "init vs systemd"
implies a false choice that precludes runit, s6, Epoch, busybox init,
as well as some excellent but less popular inits.

This matters. The justification of creating and force-feeding systemd
always boiled down to "it's better than sysvinit or Upstart!" Even if I
believed that assertion, so what: I'm stronger than Stephen Hawking
and smarter than Mike Tyson.

Use of "init" to mean something to compare to systemd, or comparing
sysvinit to systemd, are both fallacies used and useful in justifying
systemd's existence and, shall we say, "marketing methods". Let's stick
to the real costs and benefits of each init system.

SteveT
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[Steve Litt via Ale]

Wow, I got kind of nasty and personal in my response. Jeffrey, I'm
sorry.

I hereby retract everything that implied Jeffrey was trying to fool
anyone or act as an agent for systemd.

Basically, all I *should* have said was that using the word "init" for
any specific init system in 2018 causes confusion, and comparing
sysvinit to systemd, in the absence of all the other fine init systems
out there, is misleading.

And I should have also said to everyone, which I didn't, is that when
you see a comparison between systemd and sysvinit in absence of all the
other init systems, your first thought should be "OK, how bout runit,
s6, some of the minor daemontools-inspired inits, or OpenRC, or even
BusyBox init in special cases.

SteveT

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 16:28:54 -0500

Post by Steve Litt via Ale
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 14:41:43 +0000

Post by Lightner, Jeffrey via Ale
I figure if folks are going to go on ad nauseum about init vs
systemd again

"Init" is a generic term for, generally speaking but open to
modification, the first process run by the kernel plus the system to
configure and run all the daemons. Systemd is an init (plus some other
stuff), so this might as well say "systemd vs systemd".
Before the invention of Upstart, >90% of all Linux machines used
sysvinit for their init system, so some people just referred to it as
"init". Some still do, but today such reference is misleading.
Assuming by "init" you meant "sysvinit", the system with /etc/inittab
and tweaked-comment shellscripts in /etc/rc.d/init.d that can be
symlinked in runlevels such as /etc/rc.d/rc5.d, "init vs systemd"
implies a false choice that precludes runit, s6, Epoch, busybox init,
as well as some excellent but less popular inits.
This matters. The justification of creating and force-feeding systemd
always boiled down to "it's better than sysvinit or Upstart!" Even if
I believed that assertion, so what: I'm stronger than Stephen Hawking
and smarter than Mike Tyson.
Use of "init" to mean something to compare to systemd, or comparing
sysvinit to systemd, are both fallacies used and useful in justifying
systemd's existence and, shall we say, "marketing methods". Let's
stick to the real costs and benefits of each init system.
SteveT
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[Alex Carver via Ale]

cat, sed and xxd :)
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[Jonathan Meek via Ale]

I am messing around with spacevim/neovim, which gives me all the vim
commands that I have gotten use to but some added functionality and looks
like a IDE. Not sure I like it yet but it has been interesting

Post by Alex Carver via Ale
cat, sed and xxd :)
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