[ale] Connecting to r-pi

[DJ-Pfulio via Ale]

Looking for some ideas around setting up a raspberry pi when there isn't
any network with a router available.

Simple is better than complex.

The Pi has a fresh copy, unmodified, of raspbian.
The computer is running a popular Linux distro, debian/ubuntu/mint based.

How would you connect the 2 systems together using only a normal CAT5e
ethernet cable and the 2 systems?
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[Phil Turmel via Ale]

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
Looking for some ideas around setting up a raspberry pi when there isn't
any network with a router available.
Simple is better than complex.
The Pi has a fresh copy, unmodified, of raspbian.
The computer is running a popular Linux distro, debian/ubuntu/mint based.
How would you connect the 2 systems together using only a normal CAT5e
ethernet cable and the 2 systems?

I would think static IPs on both ends would be the simplest. Followed
closely by dnsmasq's dhcp server setup on one end.

I run into a lot of fully isolated subnet in industrial plants: Static
IPs with no gateway set (no default route) is by far the preferred solution.
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[Charles Shapiro via Ale]

Do you gotta have the system running? My usual recourse for getting stuff
on and off an Rpi is to just pull the SD card, mount its root partition,
and do what I gotta do. This won't work on winders of course, and it's not
very useful if you need, like, sensor data or logs that get truncated.

-- CHS

Post by Phil Turmel via Ale

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
Looking for some ideas around setting up a raspberry pi when there isn't
any network with a router available.
Simple is better than complex.
The Pi has a fresh copy, unmodified, of raspbian.
The computer is running a popular Linux distro, debian/ubuntu/mint based.
How would you connect the 2 systems together using only a normal CAT5e
ethernet cable and the 2 systems?

I would think static IPs on both ends would be the simplest. Followed
closely by dnsmasq's dhcp server setup on one end.
I run into a lot of fully isolated subnet in industrial plants: Static
IPs with no gateway set (no default route) is by far the preferred solution.
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
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[A. P. Garcia via Ale]

yes, this should work. I don't think you even need a crossover adapter nowadays.

Post by Phil Turmel via Ale

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
Looking for some ideas around setting up a raspberry pi when there isn't
any network with a router available.
Simple is better than complex.
The Pi has a fresh copy, unmodified, of raspbian.
The computer is running a popular Linux distro, debian/ubuntu/mint based.
How would you connect the 2 systems together using only a normal CAT5e
ethernet cable and the 2 systems?

I would think static IPs on both ends would be the simplest. Followed
closely by dnsmasq's dhcp server setup on one end.
I run into a lot of fully isolated subnet in industrial plants: Static
IPs with no gateway set (no default route) is by far the preferred solution.
_______________________________________________
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[Byron Jeff via Ale]

If you have WiFi on both machines, then Peer to Peer Wifi, sans router,
may be a possibility. Here's a blog post that discusses how to do to it.

https://kasiviswanathanblog.wordpress.com/wifi-p2p-in-linux/


I haven't tested it personally only because everywhere I use a rPi has wifi
floating around.

BAJ

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
Looking for some ideas around setting up a raspberry pi when there isn't
any network with a router available.
Simple is better than complex.
The Pi has a fresh copy, unmodified, of raspbian.
The computer is running a popular Linux distro, debian/ubuntu/mint based.
How would you connect the 2 systems together using only a normal CAT5e
ethernet cable and the 2 systems?
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo

--
Byron A. Jeff
Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information Technology
College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Clayton State University
http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff
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[Jim Kinney via Ale]

2 static IPs on same subnet with a crossover cable.

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
Looking for some ideas around setting up a raspberry pi when there
isn'tany network with a router available.
Simple is better than complex.
The Pi has a fresh copy, unmodified, of raspbian.The computer is
running a popular Linux distro, debian/ubuntu/mint based.
How would you connect the 2 systems together using only a normal
CAT5eethernet cable and the 2
systems?_______________________________________________Ale mailing
ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists athttp://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo

[Charles Shapiro via Ale]

Ah, I think that's how I connected my very first two PCs, on my back porch
about 25 years ago.

-- CHS

Post by Jim Kinney via Ale
2 static IPs on same subnet with a crossover cable.
Looking for some ideas around setting up a raspberry pi when there isn't
any network with a router available.
Simple is better than complex.
The Pi has a fresh copy, unmodified, of raspbian.
The computer is running a popular Linux distro, debian/ubuntu/mint based.
How would you connect the 2 systems together using only a normal CAT5e
ethernet cable and the 2 systems?
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
--
James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a
jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a
dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark
Twain http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/
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[Jim Kinney via Ale]

We connected a dlink to your laptop on my back porch about 15 years
ago, too :-)

Post by Charles Shapiro via Ale
Ah, I think that's how I connected my very first two PCs, on my back
porch about 25 years ago.
-- CHS

Post by Jim Kinney via Ale
2 static IPs on same subnet with a crossover cable.

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
Looking for some ideas around setting up a raspberry pi when
there isn'tany network with a router available.
Simple is better than complex.
The Pi has a fresh copy, unmodified, of raspbian.The computer is
running a popular Linux distro, debian/ubuntu/mint based.
How would you connect the 2 systems together using only a normal
CAT5eethernet cable and the 2
systems?_______________________________________________Ale
https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/aleSee JOBS, ANNOUNCE and
SCHOOLS lists athttp://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo

--
James P. Kinney III
Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What
yougain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog
on hisown tail. It won't fatten the dog.- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark
Twain
http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/
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[DJ-Pfulio via Ale]

Never fear, according to d-link, that firmware is fine and perfectly
current. ;)

We connected a dlink to your laptop on my back porch about 15 years ago,
too :-)

Post by Charles Shapiro via Ale
Ah, I think that's how I connected my very first two PCs, on my back
porch about 25 years ago.
-- CHS

Post by Jim Kinney via Ale
2 static IPs on same subnet with a crossover cable.

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
Looking for some ideas around setting up a raspberry pi when there isn't
any network with a router available.
Simple is better than complex.
The Pi has a fresh copy, unmodified, of raspbian.
The computer is running a popular Linux distro, debian/ubuntu/mint based.
How would you connect the 2 systems together using only a normal CAT5e
ethernet cable and the 2 systems?

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
***@ale.org
https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo

[Charles Shapiro via Ale]

Actually, we were replacing the firmware with an open source one. IIRC, Jim
correctly identified my problem to be not configuring my tftp client for
binary-only transfer. CRLF line terminators are Bill Gates's legacy to the
world. I sometimes wonder if the Gates Foundation is sufficient to repay
the evil he has done (heh).

-- CHS

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
Never fear, according to d-link, that firmware is fine and perfectly
current. ;)

We connected a dlink to your laptop on my back porch about 15 years ago,
too :-)

Post by Charles Shapiro via Ale
Ah, I think that's how I connected my very first two PCs, on my back
porch about 25 years ago.
-- CHS

Post by Jim Kinney via Ale
2 static IPs on same subnet with a crossover cable.

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
Looking for some ideas around setting up a raspberry pi when there

isn't

Post by Charles Shapiro via Ale

Post by Jim Kinney via Ale

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
any network with a router available.
Simple is better than complex.
The Pi has a fresh copy, unmodified, of raspbian.
The computer is running a popular Linux distro, debian/ubuntu/mint

based.

Post by Charles Shapiro via Ale

Post by Jim Kinney via Ale

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
How would you connect the 2 systems together using only a normal CAT5e
ethernet cable and the 2 systems?

[Alex Carver via Ale]

You do realize CRLF is older than Gates having come from the exact way a
teletype machine works, right? CR and LF are distinct functions and *nix
took a lazy approach to combine the two into a single character.

Post by Charles Shapiro via Ale
Actually, we were replacing the firmware with an open source one. IIRC,
Jim correctly identified my problem to be not configuring my tftp client
for binary-only transfer.  CRLF line terminators are Bill Gates's legacy
to the world.  I sometimes wonder if the Gates Foundation is sufficient
to repay the evil he has done (heh).
-- CHS
Never fear, according to d-link, that firmware is fine and perfectly
current.  ;)

Post by Jim Kinney via Ale
We connected a dlink to your laptop on my back porch about 15

years ago,

Post by Jim Kinney via Ale
too :-)

Post by Charles Shapiro via Ale
Ah, I think that's how I connected my very first two PCs, on my back
porch about 25 years ago.
-- CHS

Post by Jim Kinney via Ale
2 static IPs on same subnet with a crossover cable.

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
Looking for some ideas around setting up a raspberry pi when

there isn't

Post by Jim Kinney via Ale

Post by Charles Shapiro via Ale

Post by Jim Kinney via Ale

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
any network with a router available.
Simple is better than complex.
The Pi has a fresh copy, unmodified, of raspbian.
The computer is running a popular Linux distro,

debian/ubuntu/mint based.

Post by Jim Kinney via Ale

Post by Charles Shapiro via Ale

Post by Jim Kinney via Ale

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
How would you connect the 2 systems together using only a

normal CAT5e

Post by Jim Kinney via Ale

Post by Charles Shapiro via Ale

Post by Jim Kinney via Ale

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
ethernet cable and the 2 systems?

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http://mail.

[Scott Plante via Ale]

If you're inclined to believe Wikipedia, the early teletypes would actually perform a carriage return to the left and line feed the paper up one row on a LF, but the CR was necessary because of timing--it took longer than the gap between characters to physically return the print head so they added the CR to allow enough time. Apparently they sometimes had to add NULs as well. Even some CRT terminals took too long to scroll all the text up. Apparently they didn't have flow control back then.


I used to have a TRS-80 and a "Gorilla Banana" printer. I could never get the flow control to work with it, and had to write a program to print stuff. It would manually pause a fraction of a second after each line before sending the next one to the port. Those were the days! ha ha



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline
http://mrweese.blogspot.com/2007/06/gorilla-banana.html
--
Scott Plante

----- Original Message -----

From: "Alex Carver via Ale" <***@ale.org>
To: ***@ale.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 3:34:26 PM
Subject: Re: [ale] Connecting to r-pi

You do realize CRLF is older than Gates having come from the exact way a
teletype machine works, right? CR and LF are distinct functions and *nix
took a lazy approach to combine the two into a single character.

[Alex Carver via Ale]

The CR also permitted the return so a row could be double struck for
bolding or multipart forms that required double striking to ensure
print-through. Not all teletypes were so slow but yes sliding back along
the row would be slightly slower than just rolling the paper up one line.

Additionally the independent LF allowed typing vertically (with a
backspace after the LF) as well as staggered lines. The two independent
control characters were quite valuable for basic typesetting.

Post by Scott Plante via Ale
If you're inclined to believe Wikipedia, the early teletypes would
actually perform a carriage return to the left and line feed the paper
up one row on a LF, but the CR was necessary because of timing--it took
longer than the gap between characters to physically return the print
head so they added the CR to allow enough time. Apparently they
sometimes had to add NULs as well. Even some CRT terminals took too long
to scroll all the text up. Apparently they didn't have flow control back
then.
I used to have a TRS-80 and a "Gorilla Banana" printer. I could never
get the flow control to work with it, and had to write a program to
print stuff. It would manually pause a fraction of a second after each
line before sending the next one to the port. Those were the days! ha ha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline
http://mrweese.blogspot.com/2007/06/gorilla-banana.html
--
Scott Plante 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Sent: *Wednesday, October 24, 2018 3:34:26 PM
*Subject: *Re: [ale] Connecting to r-pi
You do realize CRLF is older than Gates having come from the exact way a
teletype machine works, right? CR and LF are distinct functions and *nix
took a lazy approach to combine the two into a single character.

[Raj Wurttemberg via Ale]

You guys talking about teletypes brings back some memories. These are the computers (AN/UYK-7) I worked on when I was in the Navy and you'll notice the teletype to the far left. It's a combined teletype, dual mag-tape, and paper-tape reader. I absolutely hated that teletype. Can't say that I liked the computer that much more. HAHA!

Loading Image...

Kinda funny that this picture is on the Russian Wiki page. Doh!

/Raj

-----Original Message-----
From: Ale <ale-***@ale.org> On Behalf Of Alex Carver via Ale
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 6:54 PM
To: Scott Plante <***@insightsys.com>; Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <***@ale.org>
Subject: Re: [ale] Connecting to r-pi

The CR also permitted the return so a row could be double struck for bolding or multipart forms that required double striking to ensure print-through. Not all teletypes were so slow but yes sliding back along the row would be slightly slower than just rolling the paper up one line.

Additionally the independent LF allowed typing vertically (with a backspace after the LF) as well as staggered lines. The two independent control characters were quite valuable for basic typesetting.

Post by Scott Plante via Ale
If you're inclined to believe Wikipedia, the early teletypes would
actually perform a carriage return to the left and line feed the paper
up one row on a LF, but the CR was necessary because of timing--it
took longer than the gap between characters to physically return the
print head so they added the CR to allow enough time. Apparently they
sometimes had to add NULs as well. Even some CRT terminals took too
long to scroll all the text up. Apparently they didn't have flow
control back then.
I used to have a TRS-80 and a "Gorilla Banana" printer. I could never
get the flow control to work with it, and had to write a program to
print stuff. It would manually pause a fraction of a second after each
line before sending the next one to the port. Those were the days! ha ha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline
http://mrweese.blogspot.com/2007/06/gorilla-banana.html
--
Scott Plante
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
*Sent: *Wednesday, October 24, 2018 3:34:26 PM
*Subject: *Re: [ale] Connecting to r-pi
You do realize CRLF is older than Gates having come from the exact way
a teletype machine works, right? CR and LF are distinct functions and
*nix took a lazy approach to combine the two into a single character.

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[Charles Shapiro via Ale]

I Am Enlightened!

Nonetheless, I question Mr. Gates's decision to include the LF in a machine
primarily connected to a video monitor.

-- CHS

Post by Raj Wurttemberg via Ale
You guys talking about teletypes brings back some memories. These are
the computers (AN/UYK-7) I worked on when I was in the Navy and you'll
notice the teletype to the far left. It's a combined teletype, dual
mag-tape, and paper-tape reader. I absolutely hated that teletype. Can't
say that I liked the computer that much more. HAHA!
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/UYK-7#/media/File:%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BF%D1%8C%D1%8E%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80_UYK-7.jpg
Kinda funny that this picture is on the Russian Wiki page. Doh!
/Raj
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: [ale] Connecting to r-pi
The CR also permitted the return so a row could be double struck for
bolding or multipart forms that required double striking to ensure
print-through. Not all teletypes were so slow but yes sliding back along
the row would be slightly slower than just rolling the paper up one line.
Additionally the independent LF allowed typing vertically (with a
backspace after the LF) as well as staggered lines. The two independent
control characters were quite valuable for basic typesetting.

Post by Scott Plante via Ale
If you're inclined to believe Wikipedia, the early teletypes would
actually perform a carriage return to the left and line feed the paper
up one row on a LF, but the CR was necessary because of timing--it
took longer than the gap between characters to physically return the
print head so they added the CR to allow enough time. Apparently they
sometimes had to add NULs as well. Even some CRT terminals took too
long to scroll all the text up. Apparently they didn't have flow
control back then.
I used to have a TRS-80 and a "Gorilla Banana" printer. I could never
get the flow control to work with it, and had to write a program to
print stuff. It would manually pause a fraction of a second after each
line before sending the next one to the port. Those were the days! ha ha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline
http://mrweese.blogspot.com/2007/06/gorilla-banana.html
--
Scott Plante
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
*Sent: *Wednesday, October 24, 2018 3:34:26 PM
*Subject: *Re: [ale] Connecting to r-pi
You do realize CRLF is older than Gates having come from the exact way
a teletype machine works, right? CR and LF are distinct functions and
*nix took a lazy approach to combine the two into a single character.

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
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http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
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[Alex Carver via Ale]

Because we still had printers that used the same codes and it's easier
to use the same file for both printer and screen rather than one format
for printers and another for printers?

Post by Charles Shapiro via Ale
I Am Enlightened!
Nonetheless, I question Mr. Gates's decision to include the LF in a
machine primarily connected to a video monitor.
-- CHS
You guys talking about teletypes brings back some memories.   These
are the computers (AN/UYK-7) I worked on when I was in the Navy and
you'll notice the teletype to the far left. It's a combined
teletype, dual mag-tape, and paper-tape reader.  I absolutely hated
that teletype. Can't say that I liked the computer that much more. HAHA!
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/UYK-7#/media/File:%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BF%D1%8C%D1%8E%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80_UYK-7.jpg
Kinda funny that this picture is on the Russian Wiki page. Doh!
/Raj
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Alex Carver via Ale
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: [ale] Connecting to r-pi
The CR also permitted the return so a row could be double struck for
bolding or multipart forms that required double striking to ensure
print-through. Not all teletypes were so slow but yes sliding back
along the row would be slightly slower than just rolling the paper
up one line.
Additionally the independent LF allowed typing vertically (with a
backspace after the LF) as well as staggered lines. The two
independent control characters were quite valuable for basic
typesetting.

Post by Scott Plante via Ale
If you're inclined to believe Wikipedia, the early teletypes would
actually perform a carriage return to the left and line feed the

paper

Post by Scott Plante via Ale
up one row on a LF, but the CR was necessary because of timing--it
took longer than the gap between characters to physically return the
print head so they added the CR to allow enough time. Apparently they
sometimes had to add NULs as well. Even some CRT terminals took too
long to scroll all the text up. Apparently they didn't have flow
control back then.
I used to have a TRS-80 and a "Gorilla Banana" printer. I could never
get the flow control to work with it, and had to write a program to
print stuff. It would manually pause a fraction of a second after

each

Post by Scott Plante via Ale
line before sending the next one to the port. Those were the days! ha ha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline
http://mrweese.blogspot.com/2007/06/gorilla-banana.html
--
Scott Plante
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
*Sent: *Wednesday, October 24, 2018 3:34:26 PM
*Subject: *Re: [ale] Connecting to r-pi
You do realize CRLF is older than Gates having come from the exact

way

Post by Scott Plante via Ale
a teletype machine works, right? CR and LF are distinct functions and
*nix took a lazy approach to combine the two into a single character.

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[Chris Fowler via Ale]

Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 4:03:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ale] Connecting to r-pi
If you're inclined to believe Wikipedia, the early teletypes would actually
perform a carriage return to the left and line feed the paper up one row on a
LF, but the CR was necessary because of timing--it took longer than the gap
between characters to physically return the print head so they added the CR to
allow enough time. Apparently they sometimes had to add NULs as well. Even some
CRT terminals took too long to scroll all the text up. Apparently they didn't
have flow control back then.

Very small buffers. Very small. I had a similar problem automating Nortel Merdian PBX over its console. I wrapped up the expect send into a function that put a pause between each character. I basically automated the PBX and had to also simulate a person typing in the commands. If not, the PBX missed characters I had sent. If a T1/PRI failed the program would try to bring up and check. If it was still in alarm it would report the alarm and create the ticket.

I used to have a TRS-80 and a "Gorilla Banana" printer. I could never get the
flow control to work with it, and had to write a program to print stuff. It
would manually pause a fraction of a second after each line before sending the
next one to the port. Those were the days! ha ha

I was hoping I would never hear about flow control and serial printers ever again. And here you are...

XON/XOFF flow control is software and does have a tendancy to not work well with small buffer serial printers.

Hardware could be either DTS/DSR or CTS/RTS flow on the printer. Using that would have made it work better. The problem is that you need to know what flow the printer supports or you need to set the DIP switches to the flow you want.

My Okidata days are 20 years behind me. :)

[Jim Kinney via Ale]

Alcohol cures all flow control memories. I have no idea what you just said :-)

Had to calculate and test timings in early grad school. Signal propogation time in wire plus time in detection circuits plus time to trigger action on detection plus actual signal length, etc. Now add in the blasted data collection system was getting data from multiple sources with different timings, yeah. Fun stuff.

Enthusiasts"

Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 4:03:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ale] Connecting to r-pi
If you're inclined to believe Wikipedia, the early teletypes would

actually

perform a carriage return to the left and line feed the paper up one

row on a

LF, but the CR was necessary because of timing--it took longer than

the gap

between characters to physically return the print head so they added

the CR to

allow enough time. Apparently they sometimes had to add NULs as well.

Even some

CRT terminals took too long to scroll all the text up. Apparently

they didn't

have flow control back then.

Very small buffers. Very small. I had a similar problem automating
Nortel Merdian PBX over its console. I wrapped up the expect send into
a function that put a pause between each character. I basically
automated the PBX and had to also simulate a person typing in the
commands. If not, the PBX missed characters I had sent. If a T1/PRI
failed the program would try to bring up and check. If it was still in
alarm it would report the alarm and create the ticket.

I used to have a TRS-80 and a "Gorilla Banana" printer. I could never

get the

flow control to work with it, and had to write a program to print

stuff. It

would manually pause a fraction of a second after each line before

sending the

next one to the port. Those were the days! ha ha

I was hoping I would never hear about flow control and serial printers
ever again. And here you are...
XON/XOFF flow control is software and does have a tendancy to not work
well with small buffer serial printers.
Hardware could be either DTS/DSR or CTS/RTS flow on the printer. Using
that would have made it work better. The problem is that you need to
know what flow the printer supports or you need to set the DIP switches
to the flow you want.
My Okidata days are 20 years behind me. :)

[Scott Plante via Ale]

Actually, lack of good flow control was what inspired me to really learn vi really well. I used to program all the time on a dumb terminal connected to a Unix box, and if you just held down an arrow key to get midway across the screen, the whole session would become jumbled and you'd have to refresh. So I learned all the obscure vi keys to move around the screen and file instead of arrow/page keys. Once internalized, it made me much more efficient even after I had a reliable terminal connection or full desktop.


Scott

----- Original Message -----

From: "Jim Kinney" <***@gmail.com>
To: "Chris Fowler" <***@outpostsentinel.com>, "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <***@ale.org>, "Chris Fowler via Ale" <***@ale.org>, "Scott Plante" <***@insightsys.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2018 8:12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [ale] Connecting to r-pi

Alcohol cures all flow control memories. I have no idea what you just said :-)

Had to calculate and test timings in early grad school. Signal propogation time in wire plus time in detection circuits plus time to trigger action on detection plus actual signal length, etc. Now add in the blasted data collection system was getting data from multiple sources with different timings, yeah. Fun stuff.


On October 25, 2018 6:26:55 PM EDT, Chris Fowler via Ale <***@ale.org> wrote:






----- Original Message -----


<blockquote>
From: "Scott Plante via Ale" <***@ale.org>
To: "Alex Carver" <agcarver+***@acarver.net>, "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <***@ale.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 4:03:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ale] Connecting to r-pi




<blockquote>

If you're inclined to believe Wikipedia, the early teletypes would actually perform a carriage return to the left and line feed the paper up one row on a LF, but the CR was necessary because of timing--it took longer than the gap between characters to physically return the print head so they added the CR to allow enough time. Apparently they sometimes had to add NULs as well. Even some CRT terminals took too long to scroll all the text up. Apparently they didn't have flow control back then.
</blockquote>
Very small buffers. Very small. I had a similar problem automating Nortel Merdian PBX over its console. I wrapped up the expect send into a function that put a pause between each character. I basically automated the PBX and had to also simulate a person typing in the commands. If not, the PBX missed characters I had sent. If a T1/PRI failed the program would try to bring up and check. If it was still in alarm it would report the alarm and create the ticket.



<blockquote>




I used to have a TRS-80 and a "Gorilla Banana" printer. I could never get the flow control to work with it, and had to write a program to print stuff. It would manually pause a fraction of a second after each line before sending the next one to the port. Those were the days! ha ha
</blockquote>
I was hoping I would never hear about flow control and serial printers ever again. And here you are...



XON/XOFF flow control is software and does have a tendancy to not work well with small buffer serial printers.



Hardware could be either DTS/DSR or CTS/RTS flow on the printer. Using that would have made it work better. The problem is that you need to know what flow the printer supports or you need to set the DIP switches to the flow you want.



My Okidata days are 20 years behind me. :)





</blockquote>

[DJ-Pfulio via Ale]

Any chance that someone would change the subject, so lurkers seeking help with
their raspberry pis don't get confused?

Post by Scott Plante via Ale
Actually, lack of good flow control was what inspired me to really learn vi
really well. I used to program all the time on a dumb terminal connected to a
Unix box, and if you just held down an arrow key to get midway across the
screen, the whole session would become jumbled and you'd have to refresh. So I
learned all the obscure vi keys to move around the screen and file instead of
arrow/page keys. Once internalized, it made me much more efficient even after I
had a reliable terminal connection or full desktop.
Scott
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Sent: *Thursday, October 25, 2018 8:12:39 PM
*Subject: *Re: [ale] Connecting to r-pi
Alcohol cures all flow control memories. I have no idea what you just said :-)
Had to calculate and test timings in early grad school. Signal propogation time
in wire plus time in detection circuits plus time to trigger action on detection
plus actual signal length, etc. Now add in the blasted data collection system
was getting data from multiple sources with different timings, yeah. Fun stuff.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Sent: *Wednesday, October 24, 2018 4:03:34 PM
*Subject: *Re: [ale] Connecting to r-pi
If you're inclined to believe Wikipedia, the early teletypes would
actually perform a carriage return to the left and line feed the paper
up one row on a LF, but the CR was necessary because of timing--it took
longer than the gap between characters to physically return the print
head so they added the CR to allow enough time. Apparently they
sometimes had to add NULs as well. Even some CRT terminals took too long
to scroll all the text up. Apparently they didn't have flow control back
then.
Very small buffers.  Very small.  I had a similar problem automating Nortel
Merdian PBX over its console.  I wrapped up the expect send into a function
that put a pause between each character.  I basically automated the PBX and
had to also simulate a person typing in the commands.   If not, the PBX
missed characters I had sent.  If a T1/PRI failed the program would try to
bring up and check.  If it was still in alarm it would report the alarm and
create the ticket. 
I used to have a TRS-80 and a "Gorilla Banana" printer. I could never
get the flow control to work with it, and had to write a program to
print stuff. It would manually pause a fraction of a second after each
line before sending the next one to the port. Those were the days! ha ha
I was hoping I would never hear about flow control and serial printers ever
again.  And here you are...
XON/XOFF flow control is software and does have a tendancy to not work well
with small buffer serial printers.
Hardware could be either DTS/DSR or CTS/RTS flow on the printer.   Using
that would have made it work better.  The problem is that you need to know
what flow the printer supports or you need to set the DIP switches to the
flow you want.
My Okidata days are 20 years behind me. :)

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
***@ale.org
https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
http://mail.ale.

[Jim Kinney via Ale]

That should do it :-)

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
Any chance that someone would change the subject, so lurkers seeking
help withtheir raspberry pis don't get confused?
Actually, lack of good flow control was what inspired me to really
learn vireally well. I used to program all the time on a dumb
terminal connected to aUnix box, and if you just held down an arrow
key to get midway across thescreen, the whole session would become
jumbled and you'd have to refresh. So Ilearned all the obscure vi
keys to move around the screen and file instead ofarrow/page keys.
Once internalized, it made me much more efficient even after Ihad a
reliable terminal connection or full desktop.
Scott
-------------------------------------------------------------------
PM*Subject: *Re: [ale] Connecting to r-pi
Alcohol cures all flow control memories. I have no idea what you just said :-)
Had to calculate and test timings in early grad school. Signal
propogation timein wire plus time in detection circuits plus time to
trigger action on detectionplus actual signal length, etc. Now add in
the blasted data collection systemwas getting data from multiple
sources with different timings, yeah. Fun stuff.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
October 24, 2018 4:03:34 PM *Subject: *Re: [ale] Connecting to
r-pi
If you're inclined to believe Wikipedia, the early teletypes
would actually perform a carriage return to the left and line
feed the paper up one row on a LF, but the CR was necessary
because of timing--it took longer than the gap between
characters to physically return the print head so they added
the CR to allow enough time. Apparently they sometimes had to
add NULs as well. Even some CRT terminals took too long to
scroll all the text up. Apparently they didn't have flow control
back then.
Very small buffers. Very small. I had a similar problem
automating Nortel Merdian PBX over its console. I wrapped up the
expect send into a function that put a pause between each
character. I basically automated the PBX and had to also simulate
a person typing in the commands. If not, the PBX missed
characters I had sent. If a T1/PRI failed the program would try
to bring up and check. If it was still in alarm it would report
the alarm and create the ticket.
I used to have a TRS-80 and a "Gorilla Banana" printer. I
could never get the flow control to work with it, and had to
write a program to print stuff. It would manually pause a
fraction of a second after each line before sending the next
one to the port. Those were the days! ha ha
I was hoping I would never hear about flow control and serial
printers ever again. And here you are...
XON/XOFF flow control is software and does have a tendancy to not
work well with small buffer serial printers.
Hardware could be either DTS/DSR or CTS/RTS flow on the
printer. Using that would have made it work better. The problem
is that you need to know what flow the printer supports or you
need to set the DIP switches to the flow you want.
My Okidata days are 20 years behind me. :)
_______________________________________________Ale mailing
ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists athttp://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo