[ale] UBuntu 17.10 EOL today

Discussion:

DJ-Pfulio via Ale

2018-07-19 14:08:57 UTC

If you are running any version of Ubuntu 17.10, today is the last day to
get patches.
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/07/ubuntu-17-10-end-of-life

At this point, normal people should be running either 16.04.x or 18.04.
People with servers might still have some 14.04.x machines for another 6
months or so before support ends.

If you aren't running 16.04.x or 18.04, time to move.
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Byron Jeff via Ale

2018-07-19 15:08:11 UTC

Permalink

This is the reason I only run LTS versions. It just feels like the non LTS
versions are like vaporware. Wait a year, and everything disappears.

Any comments on the stability of 18.04. I haven't upgraded any of my
machines from 16.04 yet. Is it time?

BAJ

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
If you are running any version of Ubuntu 17.10, today is the last day to
get patches.
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/07/ubuntu-17-10-end-of-life
At this point, normal people should be running either 16.04.x or 18.04.
People with servers might still have some 14.04.x machines for another 6
months or so before support ends.
If you aren't running 16.04.x or 18.04, time to move.
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Lightner, Jeffrey via Ale

2018-07-19 15:28:07 UTC

Permalink

I'd suggest ephemeralware rather than vaporware. Since it did in fact exist it isn't vaporware.

Vaporware is used to describe software that is "coming in the next release" according to sales people that almost never comes in the next release and often enough never comes in any future release. Any time a sales person answers my question with "we don't have that now but..." I ignore the "now but..." as the real answer is "we don't have that".

Online definition I found that is much kinder than it ought to be:

"va·por·ware
ˈvāpərˌwer/
nounComputinginformal
noun: vapourware; noun: vaporware

software or hardware that has been advertised but is not yet available to buy, either because it is only a concept or because it is still being written or designed."

-----Original Message-----
From: Ale [mailto:ale-***@ale.org] On Behalf Of Byron Jeff via Ale
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 11:08 AM
To: DJ-Pfulio; Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] UBuntu 17.10 EOL today

This is the reason I only run LTS versions. It just feels like the non LTS versions are like vaporware. Wait a year, and everything disappears.

Any comments on the stability of 18.04. I haven't upgraded any of my machines from 16.04 yet. Is it time?

BAJ

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
If you are running any version of Ubuntu 17.10, today is the last day
to get patches.
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/07/ubuntu-17-10-end-of-life
At this point, normal people should be running either 16.04.x or 18.04.
People with servers might still have some 14.04.x machines for another
6 months or so before support ends.
If you aren't running 16.04.x or 18.04, time to move.
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--
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Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information Technology College of Information and Mathematical Sciences Clayton State University http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff _______________________________________________
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DJ-Pfulio via Ale

2018-07-19 17:09:33 UTC

Permalink

I have not migrated any systems to 18.04 nor brought up any 18.04
machines for production use.

If I absolutely had to install a fresh Ubuntu server today, it would 16.04.

But different people have different requirements from a release.

I am looking forward to 18.04.1, which should be released in a few
weeks. I'll bring up a few test servers.

Last week, I played with Lubuntu. Installed a full, new, install and
alternate minimal Lubuntu .iso to compare the installation packages and
time-to-install.

My findings are for LVM and "minimal install" options into a VM on an
empty, non-busy, Core i7 VM host.

* alternate ISO install for a minimal install took 46 minutes. This is
the old text installer.
* New GUI installer, took 7:55 (under 8 minutes). This is the fresh,
new, installer debuted with 18.04.
* The total installed packages installed as shown by apt-mark for both
installs was very close, within 5.
* The total storage used by each install was within 100MB.
* No difference in performance, post-install was noticed.
* There is a Qt GUI option from the DE-change menu pre-login. Selecting
it isn't ready. In the fall Lubuntu, they are moving from GTK to Qt
libraries. I think it was a mistake to include that menu option in 18.04.

18.04.1 installer is supposed to have support for non-default
installations with RAID, LVM, bonded networks, etc. I am hopeful.

Post by Byron Jeff via Ale
This is the reason I only run LTS versions. It just feels like the non LTS
versions are like vaporware. Wait a year, and everything disappears.
Any comments on the stability of 18.04. I haven't upgraded any of my
machines from 16.04 yet. Is it time?
BAJ

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Jim Kinney via Ale

2018-07-19 17:54:31 UTC

Permalink

<snip>18.04.1 installer is supposed to have support for non-
defaultinstallations with RAID, LVM, bonded networks, etc. I am
hopeful.
<snip>

Not to poke too hard :-) but the CentOS installer has supported RAID,
LVM, bonded networks in both gui (except bonded which is only since
RHEL6) since RHEL4 - 15 years ago. The gui installer from CentOS 6 was
rather outstanding. The new 7 version is "cleaner" and hides the fancy,
large enterprise stuff from the basic install process. It's there, but
not really obvious. Automatic installs with scripted kickstart will do
literally anything. The text install was minimal in CentOS6 and is
basically crap in 7. Only useful for a default, minimal installation.

The minimal install for 7.5 is around 3GB (maybe. Don't really look
since the minimum VM is 100G) and doesn't include vim but does include
vi. It would be not trivial to shrink that install down to 100MB.
There's so many tools I use I have a post install package of around 20-
30 additional packages to get things to the "this is how I like it"
level. A basic, full X GUI is around 30GB (gnome interface). I set up a
test VM with a gui with only 2GB RAM and it's mostly usable. Even
<choke><cough>matlab gui<gag> will run<stabs eyes with a fork>.

--
James P. Kinney III

Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you
gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his
own tail. It won't fatten the dog.
- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain

http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/

DJ-Pfulio via Ale

2018-07-19 20:07:18 UTC

Permalink

For Ubuntu 18.04, they changed installers, so many things that have been
supported for a long time didn't make it into the 18.04.0 release.

But you are comparing apples and oranges.
Lubuntu runs well on 512MB of RAM and 1 CPU. I've used it on Pentium4 CPUs and
Core i7 ... the GUI was just as fast on both.

I looked at only the Lubuntu installation, which is basically a team of 2-3
people. More install choices aren't good when you are trying to make a solution
easy for grandma to install on her 15+ yr old WinXP computer. That's where
Lubuntu fits.

Or it flies if you have a modern box.

<snip>
18.04.1 installer is supposed to have support for non-default
installations with RAID, LVM, bonded networks, etc. I am hopeful.
<snip>

Not to poke too hard :-) but the CentOS installer has supported RAID, LVM,
bonded networks in both gui (except bonded which is only since RHEL6) since
RHEL4 - 15 years ago. The gui installer from CentOS 6 was rather outstanding.
The new 7 version is "cleaner" and hides the fancy, large enterprise stuff from
the basic install process. It's there, but not really obvious. Automatic
installs with scripted kickstart will do literally anything. The text install
was minimal in CentOS6 and is basically crap in 7. Only useful for a default,
minimal installation.
The minimal install for 7.5 is around 3GB (maybe. Don't really look since the
minimum VM is 100G) and doesn't include vim but does include vi. It would be not
trivial to shrink that install down to 100MB. There's so many tools I use I have
a post install package of around 20-30 additional packages to get things to the
"this is how I like it" level. A basic, full X GUI is around 30GB (gnome
interface). I set up a test VM with a gui with only 2GB RAM and it's mostly
usable. Even <choke><cough>matlab gui<gag> will run<stabs eyes with a fork>.

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Matty via Ale

2018-07-20 18:41:23 UTC

Permalink

I'm running 18.04. No issues yet.

- Ryan
https://prefetch.net
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Scott Plante via Ale

2018-07-20 20:04:09 UTC

Permalink

I've been enjoying openSUSE Tumbleweed. It uses a continual update method and doesn't have versions. I was afraid there would be a lot of conflicts as different software and libraries were updated at different times, but I've been using it for two years now without any of those kind of issues. It's been nice not having to deal with the major version update problem. I still have a Cent 5 box I need to wipe and reinstall that I've been putting off. Considering my fears about Tumbleweed, ironically it's a Cent 7 box that has been giving me package conflict problems.

I've never used Ubuntu though--If you want to go from 14 to 16 or 18, do you have to do a complete re-install, or will it upgrade cleanly?
--
Scott Plante

----- Original Message -----

From: "DJ-Pfulio via Ale" <***@ale.org>
To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <***@ale.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 10:08:57 AM
Subject: [ale] UBuntu 17.10 EOL today

If you are running any version of Ubuntu 17.10, today is the last day to
get patches.
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/07/ubuntu-17-10-end-of-life

At this point, normal people should be running either 16.04.x or 18.04.
People with servers might still have some 14.04.x machines for another 6
months or so before support ends.

If you aren't running 16.04.x or 18.04, time to move.
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Byron Jeff via Ale

2018-07-20 22:07:25 UTC

Permalink

Post by Scott Plante via Ale
I've never used Ubuntu though--If you want to go from 14 to 16 or 18,
do you have to do a complete re-install, or will it upgrade cleanly?

The LTS (Long Term Support) versions come out every two years (even years
in April). Each has 5 years of support for updates and packages. The
versions that come out inbetween every 6 months have much shorter support
frames.

I've only done upgrades between 14 and 16. They were all clean. No
reinstalls necessary. I've also heard no issues with updates to 18.04 LTS
to date. So I'm pretty confident that it'll go smoothly.

I usually wait a few months to let the residual bugs shake out. Usually the
first couple of subversions may have an issue or two that reveals itself
with widespread deployment. Typically by the 03 or 04 subversion are stable
enough to last the remaining support period.

BAJ

Post by Scott Plante via Ale
--
Scott Plante
__________________________________________________________________
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 10:08:57 AM
Subject: [ale] UBuntu 17.10 EOL today
If you are running any version of Ubuntu 17.10, today is the last day to
get patches.
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/07/ubuntu-17-10-end-of-life
At this point, normal people should be running either 16.04.x or 18.04.
People with servers might still have some 14.04.x machines for another 6
months or so before support ends.
If you aren't running 16.04.x or 18.04, time to move.
_______________________________________________
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Jim Kinney via Ale

2018-07-21 00:20:52 UTC

Permalink

Rhel, and older redhat, was always don't roll with the .0 release. The .1 was usually good. By the time they got to .2, it was pretty rock solid. I think the rhel releases are slower than the old redhat and .1 is solid.

My fedora get upgraded about 2 months after release.

Post by Scott Plante via Ale

Post by Scott Plante via Ale
I've never used Ubuntu though--If you want to go from 14 to 16 or

18,

Post by Scott Plante via Ale
do you have to do a complete re-install, or will it upgrade

cleanly?
The LTS (Long Term Support) versions come out every two years (even years
in April). Each has 5 years of support for updates and packages. The
versions that come out inbetween every 6 months have much shorter support
frames.
I've only done upgrades between 14 and 16. They were all clean. No
reinstalls necessary. I've also heard no issues with updates to 18.04 LTS
to date. So I'm pretty confident that it'll go smoothly.
I usually wait a few months to let the residual bugs shake out. Usually the
first couple of subversions may have an issue or two that reveals itself
with widespread deployment. Typically by the 03 or 04 subversion are stable
enough to last the remaining support period.
BAJ

Post by Scott Plante via Ale
--
Scott Plante

__________________________________________________________________

Post by Scott Plante via Ale
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 10:08:57 AM
Subject: [ale] UBuntu 17.10 EOL today
If you are running any version of Ubuntu 17.10, today is the last

day

Post by Scott Plante via Ale
to
get patches.
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/07/ubuntu-17-10-end-of-life
At this point, normal people should be running either 16.04.x or

18.04.

Post by Scott Plante via Ale
People with servers might still have some 14.04.x machines for

another

Post by Scott Plante via Ale
6
months or so before support ends.
If you aren't running 16.04.x or 18.04, time to move.
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DJ-Pfulio via Ale

2018-07-20 23:02:44 UTC

Permalink

Post by Scott Plante via Ale
I've never used Ubuntu though--If you want to go from 14 to 16 or 18, do you
have to do a complete re-install, or will it upgrade cleanly?

As is usual, the answer is "it depends."

There have been lots of issues reported due to upgrading to 18.04, but these
tend to happen for non-trivial systems. A desktop user who doesn't manually
install packages from outside those provided by the Canonical repos probably
won't have many, if any, issues.

Also, "LTS" doesn't mean automatic 5 yrs of support. Only the core repos
provide that support, so the official Ubuntu Server and Ubuntu Desktop (gnome3)
get 5 yrs of support. LXDE, XFCE, Mate and other flavors only have 3 yrs of LTS
support.

Not all kernels have LTS support either.
https://www.ubuntu.com/info/release-end-of-life

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