Discussion:
[ale] Meet the Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+
Scott M. Jones via Ale
2018-03-14 15:18:12 UTC
Permalink
The new gigabit network chip makes it almost plausible for router,
firewall, and access point applications.

Meet the Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+

https://opensource.com/article/18/3/raspberry-pi-3b-model-news?utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=&sc_cid=701f2000000tyL0AAI
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Solomon Peachy via Ale
2018-03-14 15:38:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott M. Jones via Ale
The new gigabit network chip makes it almost plausible for router,
firewall, and access point applications.
Great, so the nice shiny new gigabit ethernet controller is still
attached to the same busted-ass, flaky-as-all-hell USB OTG controller
that falls over more than Frodo Baggins.

But all in all, a nice set of improvements.

- Solomon
--
Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org
Coconut Creek, FL ^^ (email/xmpp) ^^
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Kyle Brieden via Ale
2018-03-14 16:23:16 UTC
Permalink
Can you expand on this? I've had an old first generation model B
running DNS and DHCP in my apartment for years (on Arch, no less)
without any issues at all. Am I just missing some flakyness happening
or did I just get a lucky production run?

---
Very respectfully,
Kyle Brieden
Post by Solomon Peachy via Ale
Post by Scott M. Jones via Ale
The new gigabit network chip makes it almost plausible for router,
firewall, and access point applications.
Great, so the nice shiny new gigabit ethernet controller is still
attached to the same busted-ass, flaky-as-all-hell USB OTG controller
that falls over more than Frodo Baggins.
But all in all, a nice set of improvements.
- Solomon
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Alex Carver via Ale
2018-03-14 16:26:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Solomon Peachy via Ale
Post by Scott M. Jones via Ale
The new gigabit network chip makes it almost plausible for router,
firewall, and access point applications.
Great, so the nice shiny new gigabit ethernet controller is still
attached to the same busted-ass, flaky-as-all-hell USB OTG controller
that falls over more than Frodo Baggins.
But all in all, a nice set of improvements.
Define flaky? The LAN9514 (in the older Pi) is not an OTG controller to
start. It's just the USB hub with an Ethernet PHY attached to one
internal port. The newer controller has six downstream ports. The
datasheet isn't available yet from Microchip.

Both controllers are heat sensitive so I would suspect any issues people
have might actually be thermal in nature. The Pi boards did not do much
to control heat (though the new Pi 3 apparently improves it a bit). If
you put a good sized heat sink on the LAN9514 (and also on the Broadcomm
SoC) everything is quite stable.
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Chuck Payne via Ale
2018-03-14 16:29:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alex Carver via Ale
Post by Solomon Peachy via Ale
Post by Scott M. Jones via Ale
The new gigabit network chip makes it almost plausible for router,
firewall, and access point applications.
Great, so the nice shiny new gigabit ethernet controller is still
attached to the same busted-ass, flaky-as-all-hell USB OTG controller
that falls over more than Frodo Baggins.
But all in all, a nice set of improvements.
Define flaky? The LAN9514 (in the older Pi) is not an OTG controller to
start. It's just the USB hub with an Ethernet PHY attached to one
internal port. The newer controller has six downstream ports. The
datasheet isn't available yet from Microchip.
Both controllers are heat sensitive so I would suspect any issues people
have might actually be thermal in nature. The Pi boards did not do much
to control heat (though the new Pi 3 apparently improves it a bit). If
you put a good sized heat sink on the LAN9514 (and also on the Broadcomm
SoC) everything is quite stable.
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I have several that I have build retropie for the kids and they work great.
I use a couple for pen tesing with Kali, no issue. Though, I love more
memory, 2 GB would be nice.
--
Terror PUP a.k.a
Chuck "PUP" Payne
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Solomon Peachy via Ale
2018-03-14 17:22:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alex Carver via Ale
Define flaky? The LAN9514 (in the older Pi) is not an OTG controller to
start. It's just the USB hub with an Ethernet PHY attached to one
internal port. The newer controller has six downstream ports. The
datasheet isn't available yet from Microchip.
The RPi family's SoC only has one USB port connected to a DesignWare OTG
USB controller that's infamously flaky when multiple (or sometimes even
only one) higher-bandwidth USB device is plugged in, causing one device
or the other to get starved for bandwidth.

The LAN9514 is actually a 5-port USB hub, with an ethernet controller
wired into one of those ports.

I know of several printer models that fail to work with the RPi2 or RPi3
unless something is plugged into the RPi's onboard ethernet port,
ironically becasue simply having a link up on the LAN9514 is enough to
create enough chattiness on the (shared) bus to prevent the controller
from DOSing the printer with USB2 PING flow control messages every
350-500ns. A typical PC USB controller implements a backoff, settling
at around a 4us period. There's apparently no direct way to program the
DWC OTG controller to implement something similar...

(And yes, there are multiple open bugs filed with the RPi kernel
folks. Ironically the newer RPis are worse, not better, due to faster
internal busses..)

- Solomon
--
Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org
Coconut Creek, FL ^^ (email/xmpp) ^^
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Joey Kelly via Ale
2018-03-16 07:14:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott M. Jones via Ale
The new gigabit network chip makes it almost plausible for router,
firewall, and access point applications.
I'll care when they double the RAM.
--
Joey Kelly
Minister of the Gospel and Linux Consultant
http://joeykelly.net
504-239-6550
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Solomon Peachy via Ale
2018-03-16 12:37:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joey Kelly via Ale
Post by Scott M. Jones via Ale
The new gigabit network chip makes it almost plausible for router,
firewall, and access point applications.
I'll care when they double the RAM.
Won't happen on that SoC -- 1GB is the most that can be physically
addressed.

It's not just a matter of the package; the RPi's SoC is essentially a
GPU with general-purpose CPU cores bolted on. It's easy to uprev the
CPUs, but the GPU is where most of the limitations lie, including the
memory bus/controller, and even the USB controller core.

Fun stuff..

- Solomon
--
Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org
Coconut Creek, FL ^^ (email/xmpp) ^^
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Joey Kelly via Ale
2018-03-16 15:08:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Solomon Peachy via Ale
Post by Joey Kelly via Ale
Post by Scott M. Jones via Ale
The new gigabit network chip makes it almost plausible for router,
firewall, and access point applications.
I'll care when they double the RAM.
Won't happen on that SoC -- 1GB is the most that can be physically
addressed.
So what's a similarly-cheap alternative with at least 2GB RAM? These things
are great for non-GUI applications, but I have one I threw behind my TV that
chokes on youtube and/or firefox, even with a stripped-down DE.
--
Joey Kelly
Minister of the Gospel and Linux Consultant
http://joeykelly.net
504-239-6550
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Chuck Payne via Ale
2018-03-16 15:28:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joey Kelly via Ale
Post by Solomon Peachy via Ale
Post by Joey Kelly via Ale
Post by Scott M. Jones via Ale
The new gigabit network chip makes it almost plausible for router,
firewall, and access point applications.
I'll care when they double the RAM.
Won't happen on that SoC -- 1GB is the most that can be physically
addressed.
So what's a similarly-cheap alternative with at least 2GB RAM? These things
are great for non-GUI applications, but I have one I threw behind my TV that
chokes on youtube and/or firefox, even with a stripped-down DE.
--
Joey Kelly
Minister of the Gospel and Linux Consultant
http://joeykelly.net
504-239-6550
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Joey,

Take a look at this...I am tempted to buy one one, $45 only 10 more for
extra memory...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074P6BNGZ/?coliid=ITH627DGH76RO&colid=1UYMQZPQXJ4M&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
--
Terror PUP a.k.a
Chuck "PUP" Payne
-----------------------------------------
Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux.
-----------------------------------------
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openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member
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DJ-Pfulio via Ale
2018-03-16 15:42:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joey Kelly via Ale
So what's a similarly-cheap alternative with at least 2GB RAM? These things
are great for non-GUI applications, but I have one I threw behind my TV that
chokes on youtube and/or firefox, even with a stripped-down DE.
Use something like OSMC, which it tailored for a r-pi platform.
Also, don't use wifi, go wired. Makes all the difference.

I use a pi v2 with OSMC (Confluence theme) for entertainment stuff. With HDHR
network tuners, it handles live TV at 1080 resolutions as well. Just needs the
$2 MPEG2 license. I didn't bother with the h.264/AVC license, since playback is
free. It is pretty stable and used many hours daily for music, video, TV.

***@osmc:~$ uptime
11:41:24 up 30 days, 21:40, 1 user, load average: 0.70, 0.64, 0.55
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Chuck Payne via Ale
2018-03-21 17:16:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alex Carver via Ale
Post by Joey Kelly via Ale
So what's a similarly-cheap alternative with at least 2GB RAM? These
things
Post by Joey Kelly via Ale
are great for non-GUI applications, but I have one I threw behind my TV
that
Post by Joey Kelly via Ale
chokes on youtube and/or firefox, even with a stripped-down DE.
Use something like OSMC, which it tailored for a r-pi platform.
Also, don't use wifi, go wired. Makes all the difference.
I use a pi v2 with OSMC (Confluence theme) for entertainment stuff. With HDHR
network tuners, it handles live TV at 1080 resolutions as well. Just needs the
$2 MPEG2 license. I didn't bother with the h.264/AVC license, since playback is
free. It is pretty stable and used many hours daily for music, video, TV.
11:41:24 up 30 days, 21:40, 1 user, load average: 0.70, 0.64, 0.55
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Just an FYI, Microcenter now have Pi 3 B+ for $34 in stock.
--
Terror PUP a.k.a
Chuck "PUP" Payne
-----------------------------------------
Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux.
-----------------------------------------
openSUSE -- Terrorpup
openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member
skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup
freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein
Register Linux Userid: 155363

Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to
package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio
a try.
Alex Carver via Ale
2018-03-14 15:38:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott M. Jones via Ale
The new gigabit network chip makes it almost plausible for router,
firewall, and access point applications.
Meet the Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+
https://opensource.com/article/18/3/raspberry-pi-3b-model-news?utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=&sc_cid=701f2000000tyL0AAI
I have the older Pi 3 (without GigE) running as a router just fine. It
just depends on the ISP's service. I put an AX88179-based GigE USB
adapter on my LAN side and use the Pi's internal Ethernet port for the
WAN side. I only have 25 Mbit downlink so it's within the range of the
Pi's performance. If I ever exceeded 100 Mbits downlink then I'd go
with some actual hardware. However, I might just consider swapping it
out for this particular Pi since it would run a little faster and
probably have better throughput.

The one performance key I found was dedicating the Pi to routing (and
related functions like DHCP) and then increasing the reserved kernel
memory (vm.min_free_kbytes). I increased mine up to 32 MB (default in
the Pi kernels is 3072 kB) which gives the kernel plenty of space for
the routing tables, buffers, and connection tracking. I might consider
raising it more if necessary since 1 GB of on-board RAM doesn't get used
much for other things.
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Jim Lynch via Ale
2018-03-14 16:03:21 UTC
Permalink
Well, the new ethernet speed is rated at 300 Mbps so you might be OK
with the next gen Pi.

Jim.
Post by Alex Carver via Ale
I have the older Pi 3 (without GigE) running as a router just fine. It
just depends on the ISP's service. I put an AX88179-based GigE USB
adapter on my LAN side and use the Pi's internal Ethernet port for the
WAN side. I only have 25 Mbit downlink so it's within the range of the
Pi's performance. If I ever exceeded 100 Mbits downlink then I'd go
with some actual hardware. However, I might just consider swapping it
out for this particular Pi since it would run a little faster and
probably have better throughput.
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