[ale] [OT] Java License change

Discussion:

Leam Hall via Ale

2018-10-29 16:29:01 UTC

Hey all, looking for your thoughts on how Oracle's changes to the Java
license will affect things. It looks like they are pushing to support
contracts for businesses and supposedly users will fall under the gun in
2020.

Thoughts?

Leam

Solomon Peachy via Ale

2018-10-29 16:39:13 UTC

Permalink

Those running on unix-y [1] or open-source platforms will move over
en-masse to OpenJDK. Which is already largely the case. No idea what
will happen for anyone still deploying Java on top of the likes of
Windows.

[1] If you're on Oracle hardware (or using other Oracle software)
Oracle already has their hand so far embedded into your treasury
that it won't really matter all that much.

- Solomon

--
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Coconut Creek, FL ^^ (email/xmpp) ^^
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

DJ-Pfulio via Ale

2018-10-29 16:40:21 UTC

Permalink

Oracle has a track record.
Pay attention to that and plan your solutions based that history.

Look over your Oracle bills if you need help with this decision.

If I was a Java programmer, I'd be enhancing my skills in other languages.

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DJ-Pfulio via Ale

2018-10-29 16:48:25 UTC

Permalink

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/06/22/oracle_java_se_subscriptions/
"Prepare for audit after inevitable change, says Oracle licensing
consultant"
and
"Pray I don't alter it any further."

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
Oracle has a track record.
Pay attention to that and plan your solutions based that history.
Look over your Oracle bills if you need help with this decision.
If I was a Java programmer, I'd be enhancing my skills in other languages.

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Jim Kinney via Ale

2018-10-29 16:52:00 UTC

Permalink

If I were a java programmer my liver would be long gone.

Post by Leam Hall via Ale
Hey all, looking for your thoughts on how Oracle's changes to the

Java

Post by Leam Hall via Ale
license will affect things. It looks like they are pushing to support
contracts for businesses and supposedly users will fall under the gun

Post by Leam Hall via Ale
2020.
Thoughts?

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Beddingfield, Allen via Ale

2018-10-29 16:47:34 UTC

Permalink

Our app team is looking at a wholesale switch to OpenJDK.
Allen B.

Post by Leam Hall via Ale
Hey all, looking for your thoughts on how Oracle's changes to the Java
license will affect things. It looks like they are pushing to support
contracts for businesses and supposedly users will fall under the gun in
2020.
Thoughts?
Leam
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Simba via Ale

2018-10-29 17:57:05 UTC

Permalink

Curious, what app(s) do you build? I'm wondering if they're for sale or
just internal use?

I recently reviewed an application as a possible replacement for
Helpdesk ticketing and ended up rejecting it because it's Java based..
and I recently stopped paying for PHPStorm in favor of Sublime Text
because PHPStorm is slow as hell (because it's Java based).

Just food for thought, if your app is for sale.

Simba Lion - https://tailpuff.net
https://keybase.io/simbalion

"Why is a raven like a writing desk?"

Post by Beddingfield, Allen via Ale
Our app team is looking at a wholesale switch to OpenJDK.
Allen B.

Post by Leam Hall via Ale
Hey all, looking for your thoughts on how Oracle's changes to the Java
license will affect things. It looks like they are pushing to support
contracts for businesses and supposedly users will fall under the gun
in 2020.
Thoughts?
Leam
_______________________________________________
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Beddingfield, Allen via Ale

2018-10-29 18:05:47 UTC

Permalink

I'm at a university (University of Alabama), so ours are all for
operating the university... either vendor supplied or some internally
developed.
Allen B.

Post by Simba via Ale
Curious, what app(s) do you build? I'm wondering if they're for sale or
just internal use?
I recently reviewed an application as a possible replacement for
Helpdesk ticketing and ended up rejecting it because it's Java based..
and I recently stopped paying for PHPStorm in favor of Sublime Text
because PHPStorm is slow as hell (because it's Java based).
Just food for thought, if your app is for sale.
Simba Lion - https://tailpuff.net
https://keybase.io/simbalion
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?"

Post by Beddingfield, Allen via Ale
Our app team is looking at a wholesale switch to OpenJDK.
Allen B.

Post by Leam Hall via Ale
Hey all, looking for your thoughts on how Oracle's changes to the Java
license will affect things. It looks like they are pushing to support
contracts for businesses and supposedly users will fall under the gun
in 2020.
Thoughts?
Leam
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
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James Taylor via Ale

2018-10-29 19:05:52 UTC

Permalink

I'm not a developer, and my company doesn't do any java development, so the only exposure to oracle java is for purchased apps licensing is going to be their headache.
Unless specifically required, I usually installed openjdk.
-jt

James Taylor
678-697-9420
I'm at a university (University of Alabama), so ours are all for
operating the university... either vendor supplied or some internally
developed.
Allen B.

Post by Beddingfield, Allen via Ale
Our app team is looking at a wholesale switch to OpenJDK.
Allen B.

Post by Leam Hall via Ale
Hey all, looking for your thoughts on how Oracle's changes to the Java
license will affect things. It looks like they are pushing to support
contracts for businesses and supposedly users will fall under the gun
in 2020.
Thoughts?
Leam
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
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Allen Beddingfield
Systems Engineer
Office of Information Technology
The University of Alabama
Office 205-348-2251
***@ua.edu
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Lightner, Jeffrey via Ale

2018-10-29 20:51:59 UTC

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The maddening thing about Java is they keep upgrading but there is almost zero backward compatibility. If I use a tool written to work in 6 it fails in 7 and 8. If I use a tool written to work in 7 it fails in 8. For many products that are Windows based this means I have to fight to try to install multiple versions of Java on a Windows workstation and hope I do it in such a way that one version doesn't blow away another one.

In theory you can have multiple Java versions installed in Windows. In practice it is very difficult. More than once I've had to uninstall all versions and start all over.

The simple answer to upgrade the tools is espoused by simpletons who don't understand that getting newer versions of things is often impossible. I've always wondered why they can't just make "modes" for older versions and give you big warnings when you use them rather than simply try to prevent you from using the tools that use those older versions.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ale [mailto:ale-***@ale.org] On Behalf Of James Taylor via Ale
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 3:06 PM
To: ***@ale.org; Allen Beddingfield
Subject: Re: [ale] [OT] Java License change

I'm not a developer, and my company doesn't do any java development, so the only exposure to oracle java is for purchased apps licensing is going to be their headache.
Unless specifically required, I usually installed openjdk.
-jt

James Taylor
678-697-9420
I'm at a university (University of Alabama), so ours are all for operating the university... either vendor supplied or some internally developed.
Allen B.

Post by Simba via Ale
Curious, what app(s) do you build? I'm wondering if they're for sale
or just internal use?
I recently reviewed an application as a possible replacement for
Helpdesk ticketing and ended up rejecting it because it's Java based..
and I recently stopped paying for PHPStorm in favor of Sublime Text
because PHPStorm is slow as hell (because it's Java based).
Just food for thought, if your app is for sale.
Simba Lion - https://tailpuff.net
https://keybase.io/simbalion
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?"

Post by Beddingfield, Allen via Ale
Our app team is looking at a wholesale switch to OpenJDK.
Allen B.

Post by Leam Hall via Ale
Hey all, looking for your thoughts on how Oracle's changes to the
Java license will affect things. It looks like they are pushing to
support contracts for businesses and supposedly users will fall
under the gun in 2020.
Thoughts?
Leam
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
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Michael Potter via Ale

2018-10-31 15:39:29 UTC

Permalink

The JVM is appealing for cloud computing (running multiple apps isolated on
a single machine), but now containerization (Docker) has reduced the appeal
of the JVM.

Now a person can deploy a container with basically any technology in it and
have it run more efficiently than deploying an app that runs strictly on
the JVM.

Java is the new COBOL.

Post by Lightner, Jeffrey via Ale
The maddening thing about Java is they keep upgrading but there is almost
zero backward compatibility. If I use a tool written to work in 6 it
fails in 7 and 8. If I use a tool written to work in 7 it fails in 8. For
many products that are Windows based this means I have to fight to try to
install multiple versions of Java on a Windows workstation and hope I do it
in such a way that one version doesn't blow away another one.
In theory you can have multiple Java versions installed in Windows. In
practice it is very difficult. More than once I've had to uninstall all
versions and start all over.
The simple answer to upgrade the tools is espoused by simpletons who don't
understand that getting newer versions of things is often impossible.
I've always wondered why they can't just make "modes" for older versions
and give you big warnings when you use them rather than simply try to
prevent you from using the tools that use those older versions.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [ale] [OT] Java License change
I'm not a developer, and my company doesn't do any java development, so
the only exposure to oracle java is for purchased apps licensing is going
to be their headache.
Unless specifically required, I usually installed openjdk.
-jt
James Taylor
678-697-9420
I'm at a university (University of Alabama), so ours are all for operating
the university... either vendor supplied or some internally developed.
Allen B.

Post by Simba via Ale
Curious, what app(s) do you build? I'm wondering if they're for sale
or just internal use?
I recently reviewed an application as a possible replacement for
Helpdesk ticketing and ended up rejecting it because it's Java based..
and I recently stopped paying for PHPStorm in favor of Sublime Text
because PHPStorm is slow as hell (because it's Java based).
Just food for thought, if your app is for sale.
Simba Lion - https://tailpuff.net
https://keybase.io/simbalion
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?"

Post by Beddingfield, Allen via Ale
Our app team is looking at a wholesale switch to OpenJDK.
Allen B.

Post by Leam Hall via Ale
Hey all, looking for your thoughts on how Oracle's changes to the
Java license will affect things. It looks like they are pushing to
support contracts for businesses and supposedly users will fall
under the gun in 2020.
Thoughts?
Leam
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
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See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
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--
Allen Beddingfield
Systems Engineer
Office of Information Technology
The University of Alabama
Office 205-348-2251
_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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Tapp Solutions, LLC
www.tappsolutions.com
+1 770 815 6142 ** Atlanta ** ***@potter.name **
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Schedule a meeting with me: https://calendly.com/michael-potter

Scott Plante via Ale

2018-10-29 18:12:35 UTC

Permalink

Note that this refers to Java 8, which was released in March 2014. Java 11 is the current release and it a LTS. I'm no fan of Oracle but this isn't as big a deal as some articles make it out to be.

We use the Oracle JVM sometimes, and OpenJDK more often. The main reason we use OpenJDK is around updates, but not this licensing issue. Getting updates from Oracle is kind of a pain--no repo or auto-update command. You have to go to their website, click through licenses, download it, and then in my case transfer it to the machine in question (since we don't have GUI or browsers installed), install, then update links. Unless I have to use Oracle, a "yum update" or "zypper update" is much handier.

I've also had very little or no issue running an application on a later version of Java. When I have had trouble, it's usually been someone using unpublished "sun.*" packages developers knew they weren't supposed to use.

Scott

----- Original Message -----

From: "Leam Hall via Ale" <***@ale.org>
To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <***@ale.org>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 12:29:01 PM
Subject: [ale] [OT] Java License change

Hey all, looking for your thoughts on how Oracle's changes to the Java license will affect things. It looks like they are pushing to support contracts for businesses and supposedly users will fall under the gun in 2020.

Thoughts?

Leam
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
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