[ale] New Apple Hardware with T2 chips

[DJ-Pfulio via Ale]

won't boot Linux, currently.

"At least until further notice, these new Apple systems sporting the T2
chip will not be able to boot Linux operating systems. Apple's T2
security chip being embedded into their newest products provides a
secure enclave, APFS storage encryption, UEFI Secure Boot validation,
Touch ID handling, a hardware microphone disconnect on lid close, and
other security tasks. The T2 restricts the boot process quite a bit and
verifies each step of the process using crypto keys signed by Apple. "

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-T2-Blocks-Linux-UEFI

So if you are planning to get some of that new Apple hardware to run
Linux on, do your research first.
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[James Sumners via Ale]

I really don’t see the issue outside of the laptops. But do people who run
Linux as their daily desktop OS even care about Apple laptops?

As for the Mini, while it isn’t a bad price for the whole package, one
could build a similarly compact system with comparable specs for a good bit
cheaper that doesn’t have such stringent security checks.

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
won't boot Linux, currently.
"At least until further notice, these new Apple systems sporting the T2
chip will not be able to boot Linux operating systems. Apple's T2
security chip being embedded into their newest products provides a
secure enclave, APFS storage encryption, UEFI Secure Boot validation,
Touch ID handling, a hardware microphone disconnect on lid close, and
other security tasks. The T2 restricts the boot process quite a bit and
verifies each step of the process using crypto keys signed by Apple. "
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-T2-Blocks-Linux-UEFI
So if you are planning to get some of that new Apple hardware to run
Linux on, do your research first.
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[Jim Kinney via Ale]

So the walled garden now includes a roof and a tunnel-resistant
basement.
I want a TPM/BIOS/EUFI chip that if it detects a non-free (as in
speech) OS it will brick the device after it charges a $500 fee from
the abusers credit card to pay into the EFF legal fund.

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
won't boot Linux, currently.
"At least until further notice, these new Apple systems sporting the
T2chip will not be able to boot Linux operating systems. Apple's
T2security chip being embedded into their newest products provides
asecure enclave, APFS storage encryption, UEFI Secure Boot
validation,Touch ID handling, a hardware microphone disconnect on lid
close, andother security tasks. The T2 restricts the boot process
quite a bit andverifies each step of the process using crypto keys
signed by Apple. "

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-T2-Blocks-Linux-UEFI

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
So if you are planning to get some of that new Apple hardware to
runLinux on, do your research
first._______________________________________________Ale mailing
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[DJ-Pfulio via Ale]

Let the market decide. When people want to try running Linux and can't,
that's when the walled-off-garden will matter to them.

So the walled garden now includes a roof and a tunnel-resistant basement.
I want a TPM/BIOS/EUFI chip that if it detects a non-free (as in speech)
OS it will brick the device after it charges a $500 fee from the abusers
credit card to pay into the EFF legal fund.

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
won't boot Linux, currently.
"At least until further notice, these new Apple systems sporting the T2
chip will not be able to boot Linux operating systems. Apple's T2
security chip being embedded into their newest products provides a
secure enclave, APFS storage encryption, UEFI Secure Boot validation,
Touch ID handling, a hardware microphone disconnect on lid close, and
other security tasks. The T2 restricts the boot process quite a bit and
verifies each step of the process using crypto keys signed by Apple. "
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-T2-Blocks-Linux-UEFI
So if you are planning to get some of that new Apple hardware to run
Linux on, do your research first.

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[Jim Kinney via Ale]

Fuck the market. Full of sheeple. Notice Apple make a Gi-fucking-
normous profit selling basically crapware.
If there was no advertising, there would be a free market.
<wow. who pissed my korn flakes this morning :-) >

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
Let the market decide. When people want to try running Linux and
can't,that's when the walled-off-garden will matter to them.
So the walled garden now includes a roof and a tunnel-resistant basement.
I want a TPM/BIOS/EUFI chip that if it detects a non-free (as in
speech)OS it will brick the device after it charges a $500 fee from
the abuserscredit card to pay into the EFF legal fund.
won't boot Linux, currently.
"At least until further notice, these new Apple systems sporting the
T2chip will not be able to boot Linux operating systems. Apple's
T2security chip being embedded into their newest products provides
asecure enclave, APFS storage encryption, UEFI Secure Boot
validation,Touch ID handling, a hardware microphone disconnect on lid
close, andother security tasks. The T2 restricts the boot process
quite a bit andverifies each step of the process using crypto keys
signed by Apple. "

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-T2-Blocks-Linux-UEFI

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
So if you are planning to get some of that new Apple hardware to
runLinux on, do your research first.
_______________________________________________Ale mailing
ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists athttp://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo

[jonnyX via Ale]

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
Let the market decide. When people want to try running Linux and can't,
that's when the walled-off-garden will matter to them.

Which market? There's more than one:

There's the one for large dotcoms who dictate their specifications to hardware manufacturers, thus insuring they can run and continue to profit from f/oss (Linux in particular). Google has been doing this for ~15+ years. (As an aside, does anyone know what's going on with the BIOS/EUFI firmware replacement Google was working on to rid their millions of Intel-based servers of IME security holes & backdoors? That seemed to light a big fire under their asses in 2017, and I haven't heard much since. Presumably all of the other big Linux/x86 dotcoms were doing the same.)

The other market is for us consumers. Hardware and software vendors want to squeeze us for every penny (including paid software upgrades to fix the broken stuff we've already paid for, and forced hardware upgrades when a device's OS support is dropped, ie - phones & tablets), numerous special interests want our tech backdoored and buggy, and real privacy is to be avoided at all costs, lest the ad-serving and personal data collection financial underpinnings of the commercial internet collapse. You think consumers get a say in this market?

~~Dru (aka jX)

PS - You can run Ubuntu under Windows, and OSX is a slightly tweaked BSD with a nicer GUI running on top. What more do you want? (Before I get flamed, that's sarcasm; it's also a question I've been asked at Nashville Linux Users Group meetings.)
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[DJ-Pfulio via Ale]

Ok, perhaps "buyer beware" would have been a better statement.

Seems this thread has vaccinated our community, assuming they read it
and aren't anti-vaxxers. That was the intent.

Post by jonnyX via Ale

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
Let the market decide. When people want to try running Linux and can't,
that's when the walled-off-garden will matter to them.

There's the one for large dotcoms who dictate their specifications to hardware manufacturers, thus insuring they can run and continue to profit from f/oss (Linux in particular). Google has been doing this for ~15+ years. (As an aside, does anyone know what's going on with the BIOS/EUFI firmware replacement Google was working on to rid their millions of Intel-based servers of IME security holes & backdoors? That seemed to light a big fire under their asses in 2017, and I haven't heard much since. Presumably all of the other big Linux/x86 dotcoms were doing the same.)
The other market is for us consumers. Hardware and software vendors want to squeeze us for every penny (including paid software upgrades to fix the broken stuff we've already paid for, and forced hardware upgrades when a device's OS support is dropped, ie - phones & tablets), numerous special interests want our tech backdoored and buggy, and real privacy is to be avoided at all costs, lest the ad-serving and personal data collection financial underpinnings of the commercial internet collapse. You think consumers get a say in this market?
~~Dru (aka jX)
PS - You can run Ubuntu under Windows, and OSX is a slightly tweaked BSD with a nicer GUI running on top. What more do you want? (Before I get flamed, that's sarcasm; it's also a question I've been asked at Nashville Linux Users Group meetings.)

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[James Sumners via Ale]

Post by jonnyX via Ale
PS - You can run Ubuntu under Windows, and OSX is a slightly tweaked BSD
with a nicer GUI running on top. What more do you want? (Before I get
flamed, that's sarcasm; it's also a question I've been asked at Nashville
Linux Users Group meetings.)

That’s literally the reason I, and MANY other developers (f/oss and
otherwise), run OSX as our desktop OS.

Post by jonnyX via Ale
--

James Sumners
http://james.sumners.info/ (technical profile)
http://jrfom.com/ (personal site)
http://haplo.bandcamp.com/ (music)

[jonnyX via Ale]

Post by DJ-Pfulio via Ale
Ok, perhaps "buyer beware" would have been a better statement.
Seems this thread has vaccinated our community, assuming they read it
and aren't anti-vaxxers. That was the intent.

Mission accomplished, no argument there.

My worry is that long-term we're going to see Linux, FreeBSD, etc., pushed off consumer hardware and essentially taken over by the dotcoms, and any f/oss applications that compete with their commercial offerings bought out & then marginalized/defunded/ended; MySQL under Oracle, anyone? Linksys+DD-WRT under Cisco?

What's the strategy to counter this if MS and Apple keep slowly pushing hardware vendors to prevent free operating systems from booting? Keep in mind that desktop computers (and motherboards) are a shrinking slice of the consumer marketplace, which has been trending towards smartphones, tablets, and netbooks for years.

~~Dru/jX

PS - I want cheap/easy/reliable 3d-printable open hardware from cheap/easy/reliable DIY 3d-printers. I also want a robot butler, rayguns, and weekend vacations on the moon via 100% reusable SSTO fusion-powered spaceships (a la "2001: A Space Odyssey"). We are not in the sci-fi future I was promised as a kid, and I am pissed!
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[Leam Hall via Ale]

Post by jonnyX via Ale
My worry is that long-term we're going to see Linux, FreeBSD, etc., pushed off consumer hardware and essentially taken over by the dotcoms, and any f/oss applications that compete with their commercial offerings bought out & then marginalized/defunded/ended; MySQL under Oracle, anyone? Linksys+DD-WRT under Cisco?
What's the strategy to counter this if MS and Apple keep slowly pushing hardware vendors to prevent free operating systems from booting? Keep in mind that desktop computers (and motherboards) are a shrinking slice of the consumer marketplace, which has been trending towards smartphones, tablets, and netbooks for years.

The "server" market is moving to containers, so there should be hardware
available for non desktop OS's. Might have to buy it third hand. I still
have an IBM T30 running Fedora 13 every now and again. If I was hard
core OS I'd go back to NetBSD.
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